Earning salvation by trying to live a good life seems like a reasonable idea. If it's granted for any other reason, doesn't that imply that trying to live a good life is meaningless?
Romans 11: 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. ESV
Romans 3: 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight
If you or I were running the show, we would likely have some sort of merit system. This works in school, it works in business, etc. But, we are not running the show, and we did not create the whole thing, so we don't get to dictate the terms.
God has decided that the spirit of man is unfixable, it must die. God is not asking us to agree to something that he wasn't willing to do himself. But, all the same he is asking us to die to ourselves and abandon ourselves to a new spirit that he will personally give each person when they decide to trust in Jesus alone.
So, while works are important, they are not necessary for Salvation. The are necessary to prove Salvation. Once a person is born again, his good works are acceptable, but he can only take credit for them insomuch that he recognizes they have come from the new spirit and are free from every vestige of the sin nature.To the unregenerated man, this is an outrage. But, in God's economy, the more you work for Salvation, the more sin debt you will owe on Judgment Day. Think about that!
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.” - Romans 4: 4
Sea Breeze
JoinedPosts by Sea Breeze
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75
WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.
the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.
these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.
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Sea Breeze
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75
WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.
the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.
these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.
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Sea Breeze
Sometimes the Borg inserts this narrative to follow Jesus or honor Him
Here are some terms that come to mind.
1. Footstep followers of Jesus Christ
2. Imitate Jesus
It's all works based stuff, earing your salvation. They blatantly disobey Jesus' command to be born again. They disobey Jesus when he says to "take eat, take drink this is my blood of the covenant for the forgivenesss of sins"
When it comes to stuff that actually has to do with salvation, JW's are certain to reject that.
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75
WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.
the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.
these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.
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Sea Breeze
If you ask a JW to whom is the ransom paid, you'll get different answers.
Scripture says that : the wages of sin is death. That is the just punishment for our own sin. Jesus paid the wages "for us", in our palce, to our personal account.
So, the answer is quite simply: the ransom is paid to YOU.
1 Peter 3: 18 - Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust
God trades the Justified for the Unjustified.
Chew on that.
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WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.
the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.
these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.
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Sea Breeze
What Jesus offers is the opposite of a carrot and stick:
BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED. - Romans 3: 20
YOUR WORKS ARE QUITE IMPORTANT......JUST NOT FOR SALVATION
if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10: 9
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WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.
the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.
these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.
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Sea Breeze
we could look at the basic teachings attributed to a man called Jesus, and think about how, if we lived by those, what would the earth be like?
That's the problem, we can't.... that's why we need Grace, a new spirit and a Personal Savior.
Here's a quick vid on the early Christian leaders taught by the apostles. There simply was no JW wackiness back them among them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci0mYcnlwSQ&list=PLhdOSGGHjmrAzG-Vi8Bp3kam9XiwC4NhL
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75
WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.
the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.
these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.
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Sea Breeze
Questions on the historical existence of Jesuss are off-topic. Why don't you start a thread on that subject?
There are over 45000 Christian denominations worldwide
Most are just different flavors. Most are congregation led. That way heresy is contained locally when it arises.
Not many churches disagree on how to get saved, the ones that do are cults.
When a person has a reprobate mind, they can no longer read the Word of God and understand. They could read something very similar in another book and have no trouble understanding.
There is no problem understanding this verse for a person whose mind hasn't been ruined:
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins.” - Mt. 26: 27–28
Very simple, as is this:
“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Anyone reading these verses gets the idea that Jesus wants to take your sin debt off of you and place it upon himself so that he can die in your place.
God spent spent 1500 years to try and get people used to the idea of substitutional atonement in the Old Testament. If you have a reprobate mind, God could spend an eternity trying to get people to understand it and it still wouldn't matter. They would have no trouble accepting the concept if read in another book though.The bottom line is that JW's and people in general really don't want to be saved, because they are depraved. They don't want someone else to cover their debt which requires the death penalty. Most don't even acknowledge that they have a debt to pay, although they hypocritically require payment from others when they are sleighted.
These kinds of folks want to earn Salvation so they can protect their illusion of righteousness, rather than be transformed into it.
The Ransom-For-Adam spin that the WT sells is an attempt to explain away Jesus sacrifice as something other than a substitutional atonement "for each of us" and protect peoples secret desire to justify themselves. This of course is unacceptable to God and is very rude because God clearly states that:"BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED" - Romans 3: 20
Personally, have no idea why God would want to save ANY of us. I speculate that believers will be fit creatures to properly love him and increase his joy and quality of life one day.
But why would God want to spend eternity with someone with a broken mind who can't even receive a free gift, someone who requires justice from others but not themselves?
Who would want to spend an evening with someone like that? ... much less an eternity? -
75
WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.
the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.
these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.
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Sea Breeze
@ Touch of Grey
It is not a brand of Christianity, IT IS CHRISTIANITY. In the bible, there is no such thing as an unsaved Christian. There is no such thing as a Christian that doesn't have their sins forgiven. There is no such thing as a Christian who rejects the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins". See Mt. 26: 27-28
It would be like saying, since I am a citizen of Canada, I think I will only obey the laws in Rhwanda. Or, like saying, "As a Christian, I prefer to worship Satan". Certain concepts and statements are totally contradictory.
The Ransom, though for everyone, is ONLY applied to individuals who accept it. No one is forced to accept the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins". But it is completely ignorant and deceptive to say I'm a Christtian who rejects the forgiveness of sins" that Jesus offered to "whosover".It doesn’t matter if JW's say thousands of times otherwise (and they do), Christians can clearly read the bible which leaves no doubt that the new covenant is “FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS”
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins.” - Mt. 26: 27–28
THE RANSOM IS THE NEW COVENANT and it is for YOU not Adam.
Jesus Christ died in our place when He was crucified on the cross. We deserved to be the ones placed on that cross to die because we are the ones who live sinful lives. But Christ took the punishment on Himself in our place—He substituted Himself for us and took what we rightly deserved. “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Notice how Jesus trades places with US, not Adam, in that scripture. Jesus becomes the sin that we are and we become the righteousness of God that he is! Just wow. No one in their right mind would turn down a free gift like that.
“He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed” (1 Peter 2:24).Here again we see that Christ took the sins we committed onto Himself to pay the price for us, not Adam. A few verses later we read, “For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit” (1 Peter 3:18).
Not only do these verses teach us about the substitute that Christ was for us, but they also teach that He was the atonement, meaning He satisfied the payment due for the sinfulness of man - ALL OF MAN'S DEBT IS PAID IN FULL, if we desire and accept it.
One more passage that talks about the substitutionary atonement is Isaiah 53:5. This verse talks about the coming Christ who was to die on the cross for our sins. The prophecy is very detailed, and the crucifixion happened just as it was foretold. “But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.”Notice the substitution. Here again we see that Christ paid the price for us, not only Adam.
Jehovah's Witnesses are manipulated into rejecting the free gift of "forgiveness of sins". That's what the JW doctrine of "ransom" is all about.
And like a herd of contancerous dumb-asses, they allow Watchtower to steal it from them as they laugh all the way to Hell. The WT makes their members work for something already paid for.
Christians are motivated by what Jesus has already done, not the stick and carrot that the Wt offers.
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Was Hell Consistently Taught from Genesis to Revelation?
by Sea Breeze insome sources cite that the word or concept of hell appears 167 times in the old and new testament.
jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else.
how can such consistent warnings by many different writers over 1600 years all be parables?
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Sea Breeze
Do you think that if more Jehovah's Witnesses believed Jesus on the topic of Hell, it would produce more people willing to accept Jesus' offer for forgiveness of sins instead of rejecting it at every Lords Supper?
27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. - Mt. 26: 27-28
Under the spell of other teachings like, if you die you pay for your own sins and get a do-over in Paradise; I think that JW's are utterly indifferent about Jesus' offer for "forgiveness of sins".
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Was Hell Consistently Taught from Genesis to Revelation?
by Sea Breeze insome sources cite that the word or concept of hell appears 167 times in the old and new testament.
jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else.
how can such consistent warnings by many different writers over 1600 years all be parables?
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Sea Breeze
Some sources cite that the word or concept of Hell appears 167 times in the old and new testament. Jesus spoke about Hell more than anyone else. How can such consistent warnings by many different writers over 1600 years all be parables?
Why would a man who predicted that he would die a brutal death and then resurrect himself from the dead, lie to us all? Doesn't make any sense.
Psalm 116:3
The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
Job 11:8
It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
2 Samuel 22:6
The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
Psalm 18:5
The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
Isaiah 33: 14-15
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isaiah 66:24
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Matthew 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 14:9-12
If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
James 3: 6
And the tongue....is set on fire of hell.
Jesus said, “Fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matt. 10:28).
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Watchtower Humanitarian Aid
by Vanderhoven7 inwitnesses do not give to charities.
mm writes:.
"they are specifically told to only donate to the watchtower organization to let the organization handle disaster relief.
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Sea Breeze
The difference should make jehovah witnesses feel ashamed, but jehovah witnesses are actually proud of it, sad to say.
The rank and file are too dumb to know the difference between a scam and whom to revere as God.